Recently, I waxed lyrical about my new my new bookmaker (William Hill). Unfortunately, the love affair hasn't lasted very long! As I wrote a post promoting William Hill, I couldn't in good conscience fail to update you all with my less than satisfactory experience with them this past week or so.
Things went swimmingly well in the first week, when I lost my bet! However, that changed when I won a dead heat place last Sunday with the free matched bet that I received for signing up. I had €10 each way on Zach Johnson at 16/1 for the Wyndham Championship and I was happy to see that he ended up in a three way tie for 5th (the last of the places that my former new bookie was paying out on). However, my happiness was dispelled pretty quickly when I checked my account the following day and found it credited with a paltry €6.67. Even if this was won with a free bet, which doesn't return the original stake (somewhat tight, but fair enough as they say it up front), it was half of the approximately €13.34 that I was expecting.
Now, I've won on dead heats with my other bookie and they calculate the return by dividing the initial stake by the number of dead heat finishers and applying the full odds to that. In this case it would be:
((10/3)*4/1)+ 10/3 = €16.67
where 4/1 is a quarter of the odds for the place and the second 10/3 is my initial (dead heat adjusted) stake returned. This of course reduces their payouts by reducing the amount of your original stake that they have to return. This seems to be the industry standard and is in the dead heat betting rules for William Hill also. I've checked this on a popular golf betting forum, where knowledgeable contributors backed up my understanding. So far so good.
However, despite their own dead heat betting rules which clearly state they do the same, William Hill has calculated the win as:
((10* 4/1)+10)/3 = €16.67
which is the same as before, but it retains the original stake of €10. As this was won with a free bet, they deduct the entire €10 stake from the winnings to leave €6.67. Using the dead heat rule as I understand it and the first calculation above, I should have lost €3.33 from the €16.67, leaving €13.34. As I could not see anything which altered the dead heat rule for free bets, I was perplexed by this payout. This led me to contact them for an explanation, which was an extremely frustrating experience, to say the least.
First I live chatted with a couple of customer service agents and then I had an increasingly frustrating and almost comical lengthy email exchange (see below for transcript) with the various agents manning the support email line, where they consistently avoided my questions/points and stuck religiously to a stock answer (that was obviously at odds with their own rules). It was clear to me that they were ignorant of the dead heat rule and the correct calculation and steadfastly opposed to countenancing a possible error in their system or admitting to a deliberate miscalculation.
Clearly, this isn't about the small amount money, but the principle! Anyone can make a mistake and if they investigated it properly, said there was an error in their systems and apologised, all would have been perfectly fine. Ditto if they gave me a valid reason for retaining the entire €10 stake from the winnings. Instead, the customer service seemed clueless and operate with a set series of useless replies that were obviously designed merely to clear support calls (see transcript below). Instead of finding out if could there be an error, they repeatedly provided useless information, such as the rules for horse racing betting. They even give me a bet calculator link that I had already used (and quoted in a previous mail) to prove my own point. In all my years, I have never seen such useless customer service.
Assuming I am correct, either there is an error in their systems and their customer service is woefully incompetent or they wilfully adjusted the formula to minimise the payout. I can not in good faith recommend William Hill in either case (especially the latter) and I would urge you to take your on-line business elsewhere.
Even if I turn out to be completely wrong, I can not be a customer of a company that supports paying customers so poorly. I'm sticking with my original bookmaker for the time being. Their prices may not as good sometimes, but their customer service is excellent and they have never pulled a stroke like this in the two years I have been with them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Slightly edited (mainly for typos) transcript of most of my electronic correspondence with what passes for Customer Support in William Hill. Their contributions are in red and my increasingly frustrated replies are in green:
(Please read from the bottom up. I gave up after this final mail (which I asked them not to send!), which once again missed the point completely, confused the issue further and referred me yet again to horse racing betting rules).
Hi Aidan,
Thank you for your e-mail and we apologize for the delay.
Upon checking your account, we have checked your transaction details as requested and note that it has been settled correctly with returns of £6.67 credited to your account.
Your selection Zach Johnson was involved in a dead heat with Matt Every for the Wyndham Championship. In the event of a dead heat your stake is divided by the number of selections involved in this case your stake is £20.00, so your wager becomes £20 with the odds of 16/1 unfortunately your tied with Matt
Every and you used a free bet of £20 (free bets are not paid out in the total winnings) thus returning you a total of £6.67.
For a better review of our free bets and horse racing rules kindly click on the links below:
https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5652/session/L3RpbWUvMTM3NzIyNDA3OC9zaWQvV3FBQTZzeWw%3D/#4
https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/8339/kw/horse%20racing%20rules
We hope this answers your query. If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
With regards,
Al
Customer Services
William Hill Online
Thank you one again for outdoing your usual useless response.
Once again you have completely ignored my point with a stock answer that
appears to be blatantly wrong. Thank you for adding further confusion to
the mix though by finally acknowledging the "unit stake" of 3.33. By your
comment, this is applied to the bet apparently, but not to the original
stake returned which is magically back up to the original stake (10).
Conveniently for you, you don't have to return this as it's the free bet
component.
Please do not reply to this email as you are just infuriating me.
--
Rgds,
Aidan
On 21 August 2013 18:10, support@willhill.com wrote:
Hi Aidan,
Thank you for your email.
We apologise for any inconvenience that this may have caused you. Please be informed that the Dead Heat rules was applied to your bet, and this was settled correctly. This was already explained to you on the previous email that you have received.
Here is the guide on how to calculate your bet:
Please select single each way. Please note that your unit stake should be
10 only as it is divided into 2 for place part and win part.
Please enter placed as the status of the bet at 16/1 odds to 1/4 place.
After you enter calculate, the returns total returns is £50.00
£50.00 divided by the number of winning selections for placed 5th which is
3 = £16.67
£16.67 minus the stake = £6.67
Your unit stake will only be 3.33 since only 1/3 of the unit stake will be calculated due to the Dead Heat on Place 5. You may use the below free bet calculator to calculate your returns:
http://www.free-bet-calculator.co.uk/
We hope this answers your query. Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail at support@willhill.com or via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.
Kind regards,
A
Customer Services
William Hill Online
Thank you for yet another useless response.
I realise I am wasting my time, but here goes:
I agreed to the terms and conditions. It is you who are breaking them (by
not applying your dead heat rules as YOU STATE IN YOUR DEAD HEAT BETTING
RULE at
https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135/kw/DEAD%20HEAT/related/1).
That link you supplied relates to horse racing and is not pertinent to
golf. I already studied the golf betting rules (
https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7460/kw/DEAD%20HEAT)
and it referred to the dead heat rule (link above) which clearly divides
the stake by the number of players in the dead heat.
I apologise for a link that I supplied in a previous mail (
http://www.willhill-sportsbetting.com/golf), that on closer inspection
isn't a William Hill site at all (but obviously designed to fool people
that it is) ***NOTE - I now think this is a WH site!***. The fact that you did not spot this honest mistake tells me
you haven't investigated this matter properly and are content to fob me off
continuously. In any event, your real dead heat page says exactly the same
thing and this and my previous correspondence clearly shows you are
calculating the bet in a manner inconsistent with this (and every other
bookmaker I am aware of). However, you still steadfastly refuse to admit it.
I shall be taking my modest business elsewhere. It might be a small amount
of money, but it's a matter of principle. I would have thought WH to be an
honourable company, but apparently I was wrong. I have no interest to do
any business with a company that treats its customers in such a shoddy
manner.
Please do not respond for the sake of responding, especially if you totally
ignore my questions/concerns.
--
Rgds,
Aidan
On 21 August 2013 13:18, support@willhill.com wrote:
Hi Aidan,
Thank you for your email.
With regards to your concern about the Terms and Conditions, please be advised that this is the same Terms that you have agreed to when you have signed up for the account. In which concludes that you have agreed to the process of the settlement and the process that is done. You may read and take not of the rules on the help section of the website as provided on this link.
: https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9095
Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail at support@willhill.com or via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.
Best Regards,
P
Customer Service
William Hill Online
Hi,
Thank you for the reply which ignored my point completely and reiterated
your previous point about how you calculated the final amount.
My point was that this calculation that you applied is not the same as the
one in your terms and conditions or that used by other bookmakers. You
purposely divided by the dead heat number (3) at the very end (to the 50
due had the bet not been a dead heat) so as to maximise the free bet
component (10) in the final result, thereby reducing the amount due to me.
The dead heat number (3) should have been applied to the stake/free bet
component (10) first, giving 3.33. This is what I should have lost out of
the 16.67 (3.33 * 4/1 + dead heat original stake).
This is not my first dead heat bet and I know how they work. I shall not be
using WH any more and I will be updating my thousands of readers/followers
with new information after my previous positive blog article and social
media posts last week.
--
Rgds,
Aidan
On 21 August 2013 02:03, support@willhill.com wrote:
Hi Aidan,
Thank you for your e-mail.
We apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused you and for any delays in our response. In relation to your query, please be informed that you have placed your bet using free bet bonus. Free bet stakes are not returned as part of the settlement of successful free bets, as per terms.
Here is the guide on how to calculate your bet:
Please select single eachway. Please note that your unit stake should be
10 only as it is divided into 2 for place part and win part.
Please enter placed as the status of the bet at 16/1 odds to 1/4 place.
After you enter calculate, the returns total returns is £50.00
£50.00 divided by the number of winning selections for placed 5th which is
3 = £16.67
£16.67 minus the stake = £6.67
We hope this answers your query. Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail at support@willhill.com or via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.
With regards,
J
Customer Services
William Hill Online
Hi,
Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I now understand how you arrived at
that amount, which is exactly what I wanted to know.
My only issue now is that your method of calculation is at variance with
your own dead heat rules on http://www.willhill-sportsbetting.com/golf ,
which I referred to previously:
- For Place/Show/Top 4/Top 10 betting - when there is a dead heat where
the number of tied participants exceeds the places available for that
particular bet, the stake money/amount wagered is multiplied by the number
of places on offer but divided by the number of tied participants.
- The full odds are then paid to the divided stake, with the remainder
of the stake money being lost.
- Example - a 3 way tie for third on a top four bet would result in the
stake money /amount wagered being multiplied by 2 but divided by 3.
This clearly states that my stake money (10) should be multiplied by the
number of places (1) and divided by the number of dead heats (3) and the
full odds (1/4 of 16/1 = 4/1) applied to this. This gives the value I
quoted in my previous mail:
(€10*1)/3 =€3.33 = stake money
Full odds = 1/4 of 16/1 = 4/1
return = €3.33*4 = €13.32 (excluding original stake of €3.33, which was a
free bet).
I verified this amount with a couple of online bet calculators (e.g
http://www.free-bet-calculator.co.uk/) and tried to do the same on your
calculator. This seemed to be always the amount without a dead heat (50)
regardless of what dead heat options are selected and isn't very intuitive
to use unfortunately.
It appears to me that you have changed the calculation rules in order to
maximise the initial stake (free bet) in the final amount and reduce the
payout in this case. That is very disappointing. I had blogged and tweeted
recently to my many readers/followers very positively about WH, but I now
may have to overrule my first impressions.
--
Rgds,
Aidan
On 20 August 2013 10:02, support@willhill.com wrote:
>
> * Subject: William Hill Online* Hi Aidan,
>
> Good day!
>
> Firstly, we do apologise for the inconvenience this matter caused. We are
> writing with regard to your bet **Bet No.***. We have checked your
> transaction details as requested and note that it has been settled
> correctly with returns of £6.67 credited to your account.
>
> Your selection Zach Johnson was involved in a dead heat with Matt Every
> and Matt Jones for the Wyndham Championship - Tournament Winner. In the
> event of a dead heat your stake is divided by the number of selections
> involved.
>
> Here is the guide on how to calculate your bet:
> Please select single eachway. Please note that your unit stake should be
> 10 only as it is divided into 2 for place part and win part.
> Please enter placed as the status of the bet at 16/1 odds to 1/4 place.
> After you enter calculate, the returns total returns is £50.00
> £50.00 divided by the number of winning selections for placed 5th which is
> 3 = £16.67
> £16.67 minus the stake = £6.67 We can see that you have placed a free bet.
> Please note that Free Bet stake is not included in any winnings. The
> Estimated Return on the Bet Slip and the Bet Receipt indicate returns with
> stake.
>
> We can confirm that your bet has been settled correctly. You may click the
> link provided to work out on your bet:
> http://form.williamhill.com/betcalc/EN/calc.html .
>
> We hope this answers your query. If we can be of any further assistance
> please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> With regards,
>
> C
>
> Customer Services
> William Hill Online Hi Mae,
>
> Thanks for the email. Unfortunately, it doesn't address my issue. I asked
> for an explanation of how my bet (*** bet No ***) returned €6.67, no
> a
> blanket yes/no it is wrong or right. Since I have now asked both you and a
> colleague this question, I'm started to believe you do not know how to
> calculate dead heat bets either.
>
> From http://www.willhill-sportsbetting.com/golf
>
> - For Place/Show/Top 4/Top 10 betting - when there is a dead heat where
> the number of tied participants exceeds the places available for that
> particular bet, the stake money/amount wagered is multiplied by the number
> of places on offer but divided by the number of tied participants.
> - The full odds are then paid to the divided stake, with the remainder
> of the stake money being lost.
> - Example - a 3 way tie for third on a top four bet would result in the
> stake money /amount wagered being multiplied by 2 but divided by 3.
>
> I had €10 e/w (5 places) on Zach Johnson at 16/1. He finished T5th with 2
> other golfers. From your definition above,
>
> (€10*1)/3 =€3.33 = stake money
> Full odds = 1/4 of 16/1 = 4/1
>
> return = €3.33*4 = €13.32 (excluding original stake of €3.33, which was a
> free bet).
>
> Can you please point out where this calculation is wrong? I seem to be
> only
> getting 2/1 on the Zach Johnson bet as per the infoin my WH account:
>
> Patrick Reed (9/2) Y Jordan Spieth (4/1) (Place 2) John Huh (9/2)
> (Place 3) Brian Harman (20/1) (Place 3) Zach Johnson (2/1) (Place 5) Matt
> Jones (-) (Place 5) Matt Every (16/1) (Place 5) Scott Stallings (void)
>
> Why is Johnson at 2/1, not 4/1 and what is wrong with my calculation?
>
> Please respond to these specific questions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Aidan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 19 August 2013 10:00, support@willhill.com
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Aidan,
>
> Good day!
>
> We have checked bet **Bet No.*** as requested and confirmed that it
> was settled correctly as you have placed the bet using £20 free bet. Please
> be advised that Free Bet stake is not included in any returns. The
> Estimated Return on the Bet Slip and the Bet Receipt indicate returns with
> stake.
>
> If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to email us.
> Alternatively, you may contact us through our Live Chat facility and we
> would be more than happy to discuss any issues or concerns that you have
> with our products and services.
>
> With regards,
>
> M
>
Things went swimmingly well in the first week, when I lost my bet! However, that changed when I won a dead heat place last Sunday with the free matched bet that I received for signing up. I had €10 each way on Zach Johnson at 16/1 for the Wyndham Championship and I was happy to see that he ended up in a three way tie for 5th (the last of the places that my former new bookie was paying out on). However, my happiness was dispelled pretty quickly when I checked my account the following day and found it credited with a paltry €6.67. Even if this was won with a free bet, which doesn't return the original stake (somewhat tight, but fair enough as they say it up front), it was half of the approximately €13.34 that I was expecting.
Now, I've won on dead heats with my other bookie and they calculate the return by dividing the initial stake by the number of dead heat finishers and applying the full odds to that. In this case it would be:
((10/3)*4/1)+ 10/3 = €16.67
where 4/1 is a quarter of the odds for the place and the second 10/3 is my initial (dead heat adjusted) stake returned. This of course reduces their payouts by reducing the amount of your original stake that they have to return. This seems to be the industry standard and is in the dead heat betting rules for William Hill also. I've checked this on a popular golf betting forum, where knowledgeable contributors backed up my understanding. So far so good.
However, despite their own dead heat betting rules which clearly state they do the same, William Hill has calculated the win as:
((10* 4/1)+10)/3 = €16.67
which is the same as before, but it retains the original stake of €10. As this was won with a free bet, they deduct the entire €10 stake from the winnings to leave €6.67. Using the dead heat rule as I understand it and the first calculation above, I should have lost €3.33 from the €16.67, leaving €13.34. As I could not see anything which altered the dead heat rule for free bets, I was perplexed by this payout. This led me to contact them for an explanation, which was an extremely frustrating experience, to say the least.
First I live chatted with a couple of customer service agents and then I had an increasingly frustrating and almost comical lengthy email exchange (see below for transcript) with the various agents manning the support email line, where they consistently avoided my questions/points and stuck religiously to a stock answer (that was obviously at odds with their own rules). It was clear to me that they were ignorant of the dead heat rule and the correct calculation and steadfastly opposed to countenancing a possible error in their system or admitting to a deliberate miscalculation.
Clearly, this isn't about the small amount money, but the principle! Anyone can make a mistake and if they investigated it properly, said there was an error in their systems and apologised, all would have been perfectly fine. Ditto if they gave me a valid reason for retaining the entire €10 stake from the winnings. Instead, the customer service seemed clueless and operate with a set series of useless replies that were obviously designed merely to clear support calls (see transcript below). Instead of finding out if could there be an error, they repeatedly provided useless information, such as the rules for horse racing betting. They even give me a bet calculator link that I had already used (and quoted in a previous mail) to prove my own point. In all my years, I have never seen such useless customer service.
Assuming I am correct, either there is an error in their systems and their customer service is woefully incompetent or they wilfully adjusted the formula to minimise the payout. I can not in good faith recommend William Hill in either case (especially the latter) and I would urge you to take your on-line business elsewhere.
Even if I turn out to be completely wrong, I can not be a customer of a company that supports paying customers so poorly. I'm sticking with my original bookmaker for the time being. Their prices may not as good sometimes, but their customer service is excellent and they have never pulled a stroke like this in the two years I have been with them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Slightly edited (mainly for typos) transcript of most of my electronic correspondence with what passes for Customer Support in William Hill. Their contributions are in red and my increasingly frustrated replies are in green:
(Please read from the bottom up. I gave up after this final mail (which I asked them not to send!), which once again missed the point completely, confused the issue further and referred me yet again to horse racing betting rules).
Hi Aidan,
Thank you for your e-mail and we apologize for the delay.
Upon checking your account, we have checked your transaction details as requested and note that it has been settled correctly with returns of £6.67 credited to your account.
Your selection Zach Johnson was involved in a dead heat with Matt Every for the Wyndham Championship. In the event of a dead heat your stake is divided by the number of selections involved in this case your stake is £20.00, so your wager becomes £20 with the odds of 16/1 unfortunately your tied with Matt
Every and you used a free bet of £20 (free bets are not paid out in the total winnings) thus returning you a total of £6.67.
For a better review of our free bets and horse racing rules kindly click on the links below:
https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5652/session/L3RpbWUvMTM3NzIyNDA3OC9zaWQvV3FBQTZzeWw%3D/#4
https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/8339/kw/horse%20racing%20rules
We hope this answers your query. If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
With regards,
Al
Customer Services
William Hill Online
Thank you one again for outdoing your usual useless response.
Once again you have completely ignored my point with a stock answer that
appears to be blatantly wrong. Thank you for adding further confusion to
the mix though by finally acknowledging the "unit stake" of 3.33. By your
comment, this is applied to the bet apparently, but not to the original
stake returned which is magically back up to the original stake (10).
Conveniently for you, you don't have to return this as it's the free bet
component.
Please do not reply to this email as you are just infuriating me.
--
Rgds,
Aidan
On 21 August 2013 18:10, support@willhill.com wrote:
Hi Aidan,
Thank you for your email.
We apologise for any inconvenience that this may have caused you. Please be informed that the Dead Heat rules was applied to your bet, and this was settled correctly. This was already explained to you on the previous email that you have received.
Here is the guide on how to calculate your bet:
Please select single each way. Please note that your unit stake should be
10 only as it is divided into 2 for place part and win part.
Please enter placed as the status of the bet at 16/1 odds to 1/4 place.
After you enter calculate, the returns total returns is £50.00
£50.00 divided by the number of winning selections for placed 5th which is
3 = £16.67
£16.67 minus the stake = £6.67
Your unit stake will only be 3.33 since only 1/3 of the unit stake will be calculated due to the Dead Heat on Place 5. You may use the below free bet calculator to calculate your returns:
http://www.free-bet-calculator.co.uk/
We hope this answers your query. Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail at support@willhill.com or via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.
Kind regards,
A
Customer Services
William Hill Online
Thank you for yet another useless response.
I realise I am wasting my time, but here goes:
I agreed to the terms and conditions. It is you who are breaking them (by
not applying your dead heat rules as YOU STATE IN YOUR DEAD HEAT BETTING
RULE at
https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135/kw/DEAD%20HEAT/related/1).
That link you supplied relates to horse racing and is not pertinent to
golf. I already studied the golf betting rules (
https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7460/kw/DEAD%20HEAT)
and it referred to the dead heat rule (link above) which clearly divides
the stake by the number of players in the dead heat.
I apologise for a link that I supplied in a previous mail (
http://www.willhill-sportsbetting.com/golf), that on closer inspection
isn't a William Hill site at all (but obviously designed to fool people
that it is) ***NOTE - I now think this is a WH site!***. The fact that you did not spot this honest mistake tells me
you haven't investigated this matter properly and are content to fob me off
continuously. In any event, your real dead heat page says exactly the same
thing and this and my previous correspondence clearly shows you are
calculating the bet in a manner inconsistent with this (and every other
bookmaker I am aware of). However, you still steadfastly refuse to admit it.
I shall be taking my modest business elsewhere. It might be a small amount
of money, but it's a matter of principle. I would have thought WH to be an
honourable company, but apparently I was wrong. I have no interest to do
any business with a company that treats its customers in such a shoddy
manner.
Please do not respond for the sake of responding, especially if you totally
ignore my questions/concerns.
--
Rgds,
Aidan
On 21 August 2013 13:18, support@willhill.com wrote:
Hi Aidan,
Thank you for your email.
With regards to your concern about the Terms and Conditions, please be advised that this is the same Terms that you have agreed to when you have signed up for the account. In which concludes that you have agreed to the process of the settlement and the process that is done. You may read and take not of the rules on the help section of the website as provided on this link.
: https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9095
Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail at support@willhill.com or via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.
Best Regards,
P
Customer Service
William Hill Online
Hi,
Thank you for the reply which ignored my point completely and reiterated
your previous point about how you calculated the final amount.
My point was that this calculation that you applied is not the same as the
one in your terms and conditions or that used by other bookmakers. You
purposely divided by the dead heat number (3) at the very end (to the 50
due had the bet not been a dead heat) so as to maximise the free bet
component (10) in the final result, thereby reducing the amount due to me.
The dead heat number (3) should have been applied to the stake/free bet
component (10) first, giving 3.33. This is what I should have lost out of
the 16.67 (3.33 * 4/1 + dead heat original stake).
This is not my first dead heat bet and I know how they work. I shall not be
using WH any more and I will be updating my thousands of readers/followers
with new information after my previous positive blog article and social
media posts last week.
--
Rgds,
Aidan
On 21 August 2013 02:03, support@willhill.com wrote:
Hi Aidan,
Thank you for your e-mail.
We apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused you and for any delays in our response. In relation to your query, please be informed that you have placed your bet using free bet bonus. Free bet stakes are not returned as part of the settlement of successful free bets, as per terms.
Here is the guide on how to calculate your bet:
Please select single eachway. Please note that your unit stake should be
10 only as it is divided into 2 for place part and win part.
Please enter placed as the status of the bet at 16/1 odds to 1/4 place.
After you enter calculate, the returns total returns is £50.00
£50.00 divided by the number of winning selections for placed 5th which is
3 = £16.67
£16.67 minus the stake = £6.67
We hope this answers your query. Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via e-mail at support@willhill.com or via our Live Chat facility. We are here to assist you 24/7.
With regards,
J
Customer Services
William Hill Online
Hi,
Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I now understand how you arrived at
that amount, which is exactly what I wanted to know.
My only issue now is that your method of calculation is at variance with
your own dead heat rules on http://www.willhill-sportsbetting.com/golf ,
which I referred to previously:
- For Place/Show/Top 4/Top 10 betting - when there is a dead heat where
the number of tied participants exceeds the places available for that
particular bet, the stake money/amount wagered is multiplied by the number
of places on offer but divided by the number of tied participants.
- The full odds are then paid to the divided stake, with the remainder
of the stake money being lost.
- Example - a 3 way tie for third on a top four bet would result in the
stake money /amount wagered being multiplied by 2 but divided by 3.
This clearly states that my stake money (10) should be multiplied by the
number of places (1) and divided by the number of dead heats (3) and the
full odds (1/4 of 16/1 = 4/1) applied to this. This gives the value I
quoted in my previous mail:
(€10*1)/3 =€3.33 = stake money
Full odds = 1/4 of 16/1 = 4/1
return = €3.33*4 = €13.32 (excluding original stake of €3.33, which was a
free bet).
I verified this amount with a couple of online bet calculators (e.g
http://www.free-bet-calculator.co.uk/) and tried to do the same on your
calculator. This seemed to be always the amount without a dead heat (50)
regardless of what dead heat options are selected and isn't very intuitive
to use unfortunately.
It appears to me that you have changed the calculation rules in order to
maximise the initial stake (free bet) in the final amount and reduce the
payout in this case. That is very disappointing. I had blogged and tweeted
recently to my many readers/followers very positively about WH, but I now
may have to overrule my first impressions.
--
Rgds,
Aidan
On 20 August 2013 10:02, support@willhill.com wrote:
>
> * Subject: William Hill Online* Hi Aidan,
>
> Good day!
>
> Firstly, we do apologise for the inconvenience this matter caused. We are
> writing with regard to your bet **Bet No.***. We have checked your
> transaction details as requested and note that it has been settled
> correctly with returns of £6.67 credited to your account.
>
> Your selection Zach Johnson was involved in a dead heat with Matt Every
> and Matt Jones for the Wyndham Championship - Tournament Winner. In the
> event of a dead heat your stake is divided by the number of selections
> involved.
>
> Here is the guide on how to calculate your bet:
> Please select single eachway. Please note that your unit stake should be
> 10 only as it is divided into 2 for place part and win part.
> Please enter placed as the status of the bet at 16/1 odds to 1/4 place.
> After you enter calculate, the returns total returns is £50.00
> £50.00 divided by the number of winning selections for placed 5th which is
> 3 = £16.67
> £16.67 minus the stake = £6.67 We can see that you have placed a free bet.
> Please note that Free Bet stake is not included in any winnings. The
> Estimated Return on the Bet Slip and the Bet Receipt indicate returns with
> stake.
>
> We can confirm that your bet has been settled correctly. You may click the
> link provided to work out on your bet:
> http://form.williamhill.com/betcalc/EN/calc.html .
>
> We hope this answers your query. If we can be of any further assistance
> please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> With regards,
>
> C
>
> Customer Services
> William Hill Online Hi Mae,
>
> Thanks for the email. Unfortunately, it doesn't address my issue. I asked
> for an explanation of how my bet (*** bet No ***) returned €6.67, no
> a
> blanket yes/no it is wrong or right. Since I have now asked both you and a
> colleague this question, I'm started to believe you do not know how to
> calculate dead heat bets either.
>
> From http://www.willhill-sportsbetting.com/golf
>
> - For Place/Show/Top 4/Top 10 betting - when there is a dead heat where
> the number of tied participants exceeds the places available for that
> particular bet, the stake money/amount wagered is multiplied by the number
> of places on offer but divided by the number of tied participants.
> - The full odds are then paid to the divided stake, with the remainder
> of the stake money being lost.
> - Example - a 3 way tie for third on a top four bet would result in the
> stake money /amount wagered being multiplied by 2 but divided by 3.
>
> I had €10 e/w (5 places) on Zach Johnson at 16/1. He finished T5th with 2
> other golfers. From your definition above,
>
> (€10*1)/3 =€3.33 = stake money
> Full odds = 1/4 of 16/1 = 4/1
>
> return = €3.33*4 = €13.32 (excluding original stake of €3.33, which was a
> free bet).
>
> Can you please point out where this calculation is wrong? I seem to be
> only
> getting 2/1 on the Zach Johnson bet as per the infoin my WH account:
>
> Patrick Reed (9/2) Y Jordan Spieth (4/1) (Place 2) John Huh (9/2)
> (Place 3) Brian Harman (20/1) (Place 3) Zach Johnson (2/1) (Place 5) Matt
> Jones (-) (Place 5) Matt Every (16/1) (Place 5) Scott Stallings (void)
>
> Why is Johnson at 2/1, not 4/1 and what is wrong with my calculation?
>
> Please respond to these specific questions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Aidan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 19 August 2013 10:00, support@willhill.com
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Aidan,
>
> Good day!
>
> We have checked bet **Bet No.*** as requested and confirmed that it
> was settled correctly as you have placed the bet using £20 free bet. Please
> be advised that Free Bet stake is not included in any returns. The
> Estimated Return on the Bet Slip and the Bet Receipt indicate returns with
> stake.
>
> If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to email us.
> Alternatively, you may contact us through our Live Chat facility and we
> would be more than happy to discuss any issues or concerns that you have
> with our products and services.
>
> With regards,
>
> M
>
Posts
No comments:
Post a Comment